"Date Rapes are Romantic!", or, How Screw Up can a Girl's Take on Romace Get?

[emmuzka]

I can't say that this is good fan fic meta, but it just occurred to me that SGA fic is now suffering for the illnesses of a major fandom. Add a year or two and it might start to degenerate.

Bad fics are among us. they must be tolerated, because everyone of us is young or a first timer once. And if the author continues on her bad ways? Well, they can't be all good. The whole idea of fan fic writing is that anyone can write it, so no complains here.

But. Have you noticed that there are growing number of fics that make you scream of injustice? Fics that are against your mental image of how the societies work? If I have to read one more fic of "He raped him but it's perfectly okay because really they are in love!", I have to hurt somebody. Do these writers have a screwed up view of the world or what? Are they people who think that in the real world, date rape would be romantic?

Let me give you a few examples. In Little Fishes by Anna Isabelle, John has hard sex with Rodney while Rodney is heavily drugged with the whole purpose of making him submissive. John struggles with his conscience for about two seconds before letting loose and to the issue of borderline consensual/non-consensual sex is not faced in the rest of the story. Because they are in love, right?

The other example is a more famous one:Miracles and Little Miracles by Master Elayna. In these fics john acts like a jerk against Rodney, ordering him to stop hugging other people and overall putting him sumbolically between an owen and a fist. And what does Rodney do? Does he say, at least once, "You can't order me around, I'm a grown man"? No, he doesn't.

This is a pretty good fic, a nice read, and the whole time I'm thinking that the writer is heading for the story about abusive relationship and how Rodney gets out of it. But no! The writer lets them stay like that. When she was confronted about that in the comments of her original lj-post, she just said that she thought that John ordering Rodney around was *romantic*! what kind of books has the author been reading, and can I burn them?

Where does these kind of fic come from? Who teaches girls to think that this kind of thought pattern, even in a story, would be good?

Comments

[emmuzka.livejournal.com]

*boils the water for the third cup of instant coffee*

Yes, I think the problem lays in the confused mixing of the rape fantasy and the twisted notions about relationships. there is nothing wrong with rape fantasies. They get the "absolution" for their outside context of being just fantasies. It's okay to fantasize sometimes about being a victim.

but, the things get messy when the "solution" for the problem of abuse is written in within the context of the story. This produces the twisted stories of rape, jealosy etc with the solution offer of "true love".

how do we know if these writers just want to emulate bad romance novels, or are they really inflicted by the novels so much that they truly believe them? What ever is the case, I don't think that it is a clever idea to promote this ideology further in fan fiction.

[linblad.livejournal.com]

I think you got the point there. That plot have always been part of the romantic stories. They come with the idea that sex is bad. You are not allowed to want it. Therefore heroine stays pure and ideal when man forces her into intercourse. You know very well my knowledge about slash :) but I could imagine that these attitudes will reflect in all love/romance/sex fiction.

There os also question about the conflict. Two persons wanting sex and then sleeping together is not as intresting as one person wanting sex and one person not wanting or wanting something else like staying friends, pure romance etc. "Romantic" violence is one solution for this conflict.

But if this solution gets too strong postion as a stereotypia, then it might be dangerous. These basic types affect our opininons. We want to find villains, heroes, tragic love and happy endings in real life. We find it somehow pleasing when things happen "just like in the movies". The first fiction written by kids or in this case teenagers are perfect pictures about our architypes. If date rape is very often there and if it is accepted, I would be slightly worried. Those who don't understand the difference of fiction and reality might get some support for their thougths, that woman's "no" is "yes" and mini-skirt means that girl actually wants to have it. No matter that all normal pepole know that IRL and fiction are two different things.

On the other hand there are people, who like to be "forced" into sex. They are called cheaters. They just couldn't help it, they were too drunk and other participant was just too strong-willed. They just couldn't say no. I think this attitude as a sort of evil twin of the date rape. Sexual desire (and/or love) is considered as such a strong force that it might make people do things they don't actually want to. Or something. We are ready to somehow accept that woman/man might abandon her/his three kids and ten year of somehow happy marriage because she/he has just fell in love. So in case of date rape if you love and/or want somebody really, really bad it is okay to hurt her/him little bit because you can't help it. Or something...

But if we start to discuss, whether it is all right to write IRL-non-acceptable things as totally acceptable things in fiction, then we are suddendly back in the pedophilia-questions again. No, we have been there already, thank you :)

[emmuzka.livejournal.com]

Good point about the idea of the heroine (-> the reader) staying pure and innocent if she was forced. But of cource this solution causes even more problems, plot-wise, and a good solution for *those* is not the pure love-kind, thank you very much.

About the conflict plot: It's actually a pretty good base for a plot. But again, the shmoopy love solution is not the answer. Besides, the dramatic angst would be only not more realistic, but a better, drama, too!

Stereotypes are always dangerous, especially if the readers will give them more pover by enchanging them and renewing them in their own texts. Reading stereotypical crap might be nice now and then, but transferring them to new texts must leave some kind of pattern into your brain, if not into your behavior. Like, people are reading aboutthe ultimate joy of being a stay-at-home, 24/7 super mom, and then they write stories where the pregnant character will instantly drop out of a highly appreciated job recuiring years of training, just to be the cosy home mom, and without showing even a slightest hint of missing the job.

I do know people who "accidentally" had sex with someone. What, do they fall accidentally on someones dick, or how do they manage that, anyway? Do they feel good when they were so drunk that they'll have to get the morning-after-pill, just in case? I don't like to read about this kind of behaviour as accepted, either.

And as for whether its all right to write unacceptable in Rl-things in fiction... In short, in my oppinion, it's perfectly ok to write, say, a rape fic, if the plot is logical; if the aftermath of the abuse is as bad and problematic as it would be in RL; the rapist is the villain, and the act of violence is *not sexy*. But if in the story the act of violence would be described as something sexy, or if it would be the "hero" that would do the raping, etc? that would be sic, and I wouldn't want to read that or know a person who would write that.

And as for whether or not it would be ok to *write at all* about socially condemned topics like rape? Can you spell s e n s o r s h i p ?

[lumiyu.livejournal.com]

Yep, there's the "sex is evil, woman is pure and cannot possibly want that, so man has to make her do it". Meh. There is also the softer version of woman not wanting to kiss, man forcing the kiss and after few moments the woman starting to enjoy it (that scene is all over the place). We need more stories of women saying "I want him, and I want sex and I want it now" ^^.

Of course for a plot, it's not so interesting if two characters meet, decide they want to have sex and do it ;). But the conflict of "one wants, the other doesn't" doesn't in no way NEED to be resolved through violence, and if there is questionable means used, those issues should be addressed too for me to enjoy the story properly.

Although, as idealistic artist type, I do think all forms and ideas are acceptable (in the way that they are allowed to be produced). Just because someone writes a story where rape is okay, doesn't mean the writer condones it (and IMO the motives of the writer don't have to be examined anyway). Or rather, just because someone writes in positive ways about things I don't approve, doesn't mean they shouldn't do it. I can imagine writing a story where ideals opposite of mine are presented in favorable light, not because I'd want anyone to think like that (of course not, I want them to think like me. Muahahaa), but because sometimes offering strong image gives people bigger reaction. As in "story about hero doing the raping and it being a-okay" vs "story about a guy who we thought is a hero but rapes and gets what is coming for him"... the first might make people think (and object) more about raping and how shite that guy is. (Not saying it is particularly good tactic, but shock value has it's uses too.)

Maybe the story enforces bad behavior on some people, but I am inclined to think it is more of our culture influencing the story (and the same culture influences the reader as well (Like eating of ice cream connected to drowing.)) as well as personal instabilities. People can go crazy over books, games, roleplay... yet they did go crazy long before those things.

I also think that art (using the term loosely here ;)) should be accountable as well. Someone produces a piece, others are entitled to rip it to pieces and trash it.

*cough* c e n s o r s h i p *wink*

[emmuzka.livejournal.com]

*cough* c e n s o r s h i p *wink*


AARGH! *Stabs herself*

As in
"story about hero doing the raping and it being a-okay" vs "story about a
guy who we thought is a hero but rapes and gets what is coming for
him"... the first might make people think (and object) more about raping
and how shite that guy is. (Not saying it is particularly good tactic,
but shock value has it's uses too.)


But what is the first story doesn't cause the reaction desired? What if the desired reaction wasn't wasn't meant to be negative in the first place? I have read many non-con fan fics where the only reason for the use of non-con was the desire to make a edgy, *sexy* story. Urgh. (Not like the non-con would have been a-okay in the stories, but the original idea of using non-con as a cheap drama device is kinda sleazy)

[dlasta.livejournal.com]

But what if the first story doesn't cause the reaction desired?

Exactly. When does it ever? Usually these sort of crappy fics get shitload of (lj) replies in which moronic twits are yay about how awesome this literary piece of crap was. *grrr*

Um, my point was: How can your brain not go 'um, wait, this might not be all that sweet in real life'?
(It's pretty easy to tell apart the ones that are writing their non-con fantasy or whatever from those who just think that handsome/cute/sexy men just can't be rapists and 'but they're, like, soulmates!'.)

...guh, I just remembered the last two seasons of Buffy. I may need a bucket.

[lumiyu.livejournal.com]

(( I couldn't figure out how to quote. stoopid. ))

Um, then .... reader can wail about the fifteen minutes of her life that she ain't never getting back? :< (Which, when I used to read fanfiction happened quite often. >.< ) Lot of writers use all kinds of cheap tricks and sleazy ways to attract readers (and when they succeed it is damn annoying).

I was trying to comment on what you said about "not wanting to know such authors or read something from them ever again because of the content" that personally I don't rule out any content solely for that. I do stop reading bad authors though ;) Usually after much ranting ^^. But I'm sure there is "good" stories that appear to be condoning rape. I can't think of any though ;). But for example Tepper writes with certain edge, and personally I cannot agree with many of the ideals she presents in her books. I have no idea if or how much she herself agrees (don't need to know either.) But yet I have thoroughly enjoyed her books and the ideas she present, as they give me lot to think about. Theoretically I can imagine myself reading such fic, and think it was good. Theoretically! I don't want to try ;).

Also Labyrinth that is one of my favorite movies, uses kind of similar set-up - the Goblin King falls in love with the girl and does all kinds of nasty tricks to get her and it is, kind of, romantic ;) Not something I'd want happen to me RL, of course though. (And in the end the he doesn't get the girl, aww.)

But I am digressing. Rape is very very wrong, and I do hope the people writing / enjoying those stories don't carry that to their RL attitudes.